FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions-for SRG


This is a dynamic list. It changes, based on general knowledge (or lack of) out there.
This is to help you. It is rather long. Read as much as you want; it's recommended to take the time to read and understand. It will improve your enjoyment on the repeater.

For "home" (start over) click here.


Is this an open repeater?
 Yes, in one word.

The repeater is controlled. What this means is pro active management such as this FAQ and other guidelines to make it a nice place to operate for you and the other users. Another is asking folks to register (free) so its known you have the correct access information. When you register please indicate if any information is sensitive, which will be protected (ie. phone number).

Is S.R.G. a club?

Yes however, is very informal because of no SRG nets or meetings. Based out of Spokane, Washington, SRG is just an informal group that wishes to keep the hobby alive with a nice operation. An occasional annual meeting is the only current activity to keep the mission of SRG focused. SRG is open to all suggestions.

Is this a bunch of repeaters linked together?
 Short answer; NO. Long answer: you may be used to the Evergreen Inter-Tie, DMR, WIRES-X, Win System, AllStar, different nodes with different Clubs,owners, etc. SRG is different. It's ONE repeater on 147.20 MHz. This is your main access frequency. Having said this; yes, a second access frequency of 145.450 MHz has been added to help out with the 147.20 coverage. The coverage map illustrates this.

Where is the repeater located?
You may be used to knowing what site a conventional repeater is located so you can determine where you can get into to. SRG is different. Try to un-learn what you've experienced on other repeaters. Try to think of this is one repeater, with lots of coverage. The repeater is based out of Spokane, with about twenty "towers" (sites) around Eastern Washington State to provide coverage. These are referred to as "access points". The repeater is easy to figure out and operate. What's going on in the background is complicated however, not needed to understand to get on the air. If you wish to get involved with SRG and its maintenance there is a short training resource available.

What does the repeater cover?
 This coverage map should show you the coverage for SRG.

[20 coverage]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do I get into the repeater?
 You transmit with the correct offset and tone depending where you are. FCC requires you know what frequency you are on. Therefore, coverage areas are based on the nearest town/city (not counties or mountain sites). This also makes it meaningful for newcomers who probably know a town but not a site. You need to request the current access information. The address is at the bottom of this document, or you can go to the "contact page" on this site.

I have an old radio without tone. Can anything be done?
 Yes, a couple of things. Without tone you can have limited access in the Spokane area only with a base station. Some of the access points are on carrier squelch for this purpose. Tone is required for extended access. You can also install a tone generator (encoder) in your radio. Communications Specialist is an excellent source. You will need to have some tools and know-how for the installation.

I have an new radio with all kinds of features, bells and whistles
 Avoid getting "wrapped around the axil" with all the tone settings. The basic setup should be carrier squelch on your receive and tone on your transmit. No digital or other signalling is needed or desired.

Is that called "PL" ?
 "PL" is a Motorola trademark meaning Private Line, which was developed before amateur repeaters, and is a misunderstanding. PL is a slang for CTCSS; continuous tone coded squelch system.

Does tone (or PL) mean a "closed" repeater ?
 Absolutely not..! This is an OPEN repeater. Tones are to control interference and to select the various access points on the system. Hopefully, this FAQ clears up any misunderstandings from on-line repeater listings or other hearsay.

I found the PL tone on my own, or in the repeater directory.
 Bringing up the repeater does not mean you have the correct tone, or will get through. There are things happening in the background designed for interference suppression and to "hunt and peck" around with your tone selector only complicates the situation. It is best to request the access information. Repeater directories and line-on listing have good intentions, that may work for conventional repeaters however, can not properly explain the system, nor have the manpower for that. You can use it as a general guide to see that a frequency is in use in that area, but that's about it.

I found x.xx MHz frequency I happen to be hunting around for on various bands and hear some of the same traffic as the 20 repeater. Some of these are in the repeater directory.
As a reminder, we have three VHF bands and three UHF bands for amateur use. (6, 2, 1.25, meters; 70, 35 and 23 centi-meter bands, respectively). These bands have "sub-bands" for auxiliary and linking usage. Other sub-bands are for (user) repeater in and outputs. The repeater's connection points use many frequencies on VHF and UHF. These are for support of the 147.20 repeater. Unfortunately, some frequency listings have left such link frequencies in the repeater directory, thus causing additional confusion and frustration. These administrators need to understand name "repeater directory" is self-explanatory, not to be confused with "linking directory", would make life nicer for repeater owners and users. It's an ongoing struggle to convince them of this simple fact.

What's a link?
The work "link" is an operational term (for most) and not a techi term. Other repeaters may have a "link" that you turn on to connect to other repeaters/Clubs, etc. SRG is different. There is nothing to "connect" or turn on or off. Everything is one system and automatic.

Is 147.20 available for emergency traffic? (not a "net" but the real thing).
Absolutely yes. That's what the amateur radio service is about. For true emergencies contact SRG as soon as possible. In many cases the repeater can be "adjusted" to accommodate most situations.

I am monitoring the repeater but nothing is being heard (I want something to happen).
The repeater is not like a broadcast station which transmits a signal (with voice, music, etc.) all the time. During periods of no activity your radio will be silent with your carrier squelch. This is a normal condition for operating on the FM bands. (lower HF bands with SSB/CW has that constant noise in the background during no activity).

If you wish to start some activity, just key up, say your call sign, along with something meaningful such as "monitoring" or "listening". If you just say your call sign some folks don't know your intentions. You should be clear and say what you want. You only should do this once every few hours. To do this every few minutes can be annoyance to folks listening however, don't have the time for casual chat. If you are really trying to start something be patient. Or do something else (play on the internet, eat lunch, drive your car, etc.) while monitoring the repeater. Obviously, if there's an emergency your first effort should be to call 911. If no phone is around then the repeater would be your second choice to get someone to respond to help.

Tip:
When you want to access the repeater and key-up you also need to say your call sign, all in one step. Just keying up is inappropriate and technically illegal. Doing this is a bad habit called, "kerchunking" and should be avoided.

Is this like the Intertie ?
 No, the system is not connected with the Evergreen Intertie in any way. The E.G.I.T. a separate network of repeaters (and multiple Clubs/groups).

What can I talk about on the air ?
 If you are wondering about this you might re-visit the ARRL and FCC sites under amateur rules. The obvious undesirables (no-no's) are:

  • Politics (serious discussions; does not include joking or razzing them)

  • Religion (serious discussions; same as above)

  • Profanity (occasional "this damn computer thingy" etc. is tolerated but not recommended). Other words; F-word, S-word, etc., is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

  • Playing music is absolutely not allowed; even "patching" other services over the repeater, such as NOAA, Public Safety, short wave, etc.

  • Causing interference

    As with most U.S. governmental rules and people's interpretation of them; laws and regulations are left "open" for some people to use them in the "gray area".

    The above "undesirables" listed can be "touched" on in a humorous way, such as "I wish God would make it snow today". This is understood as fun talk with a religious reference without preaching doctrine or other possible offensive contend to other people with different beliefs. Every person has a right to believe (or not) however, this subject and related activities should be avoided on the air, to any detail. Amateur radio is a neutral medium/forum where-is all races, religion, gender, age, military rank, civilian seniority, etc., is on neutral ground. Amateur radio operators are people, no more, no less.

    For the newcomers to the system it's suggestion you read over SRG guidelines on this site.

    Any other items not to say?

    Yes, CB lingo is not appreciated on the system. Some of undesirables and poor language are:

  • "QSL". Amateur "Q" signals are just that, for CW/morse code operation and not voice mode. The appropriate term is "roger" or some other plain language.

  • "Personal" The word can indicate something on your person such as R-rated things. If you are trying to tell your name, just say "name". Yes, amateur radio term of "handle" is used and ok. Just keep in mind plain language, like how you would talk in person is best.

    I learned we should not "tie up" the repeater for local stuff and go to simplex.
     Perhaps you have been ridiculed on other repeaters by tying up the frequency for conversations lasting more than a few minutes or read about that in ARRL or other publications? For SRG that is not true. There is not enough traffic on 20 to be concerned with, like some other repeaters. SRG promotes all amateurs to hear what's going on in Eastern Washington. One way to accomplish this is to use the repeater. That way everyone can hear what's going on. So stay on the repeater. Who knows, maybe someone out of town might be interested in listening, or even want to join in. If there becomes a time when it gets too busy SRG will address a change in this answer. In the meantime, we could use some activity, so you are welcome to stay on the system. Some typical conversations can go on for an hour or more. Having said this, if you happen to be coordinating directions with another amateur and only a few blocks away; in this case simplex would be better.

    Another, very minor issue is a "newbie" mistake to break in a conversation then getting nervous or intimidated and have nothing to say. We understand that. Perhaps that's why many folks like "nets" whereas, one "checks-in" then can just listen to the rest of the traffic. SRG promotes individual opinions, comments and fun conversation.



    I don't get a courtesy tone (roger-beep)
     Asking this indicates you come from the "newer school". That's okay. When a station is done transmitting and unkeys, there is the familiar squelch burst heard by others on the repeater. A beeper for every transmission is redundant, unnecessary and even distracting from real important indicators that might be noticed on the repeater. Rather than to have an "electronic leash" SRG relies on your responsibility of leaving a second or two "gap" between transmissions in case someone needs to get in. In the future "beepers" might be used to show status of unusual conditions, such as a link up, or emergency power, etc. where real attention may be needed.

    After I unkey, I get a long tail. Do I need to let it drop out each time?
     No. The long tail saves the repeater from being up and down during a normal contact/conversation to avoid the (second) annoying squelch burst in your receiver. The other reason the repeater has a delay when it first comes up. To avoid this delay the output carrier is designed to stay up during contacts. Just give a second or two pause between transmission and you should be fine. In the event that you did transmit continuously for over 3 minutes the repeater would time out and the output carrier would drop and stay off, until you stopped transmitting. In that case the repeater would reset, telling the others the repeater did reset by the output carrier coming back up.

    Can I use my "cross-band" radio on SRG?
     The short answer is no. Most of the discussion is beyond the scope of this page however, simple explanation is only fair. The system is currently not compatible with any "personal remotes" / cross-band stations. If you have issues getting into SRG please contact us for possible solutions.

    The other point is the FCC requires that you have %100 positive control (at all times) of your amateur radio station. Also, permission from the repeater owner/Club to do this is appropriate. Conventional repeaters/Clubs occasionally do allow this type of operation. However, cross-band stations work best for emergency, simplex work.

    Gee, now I can call my spouse/SO anytime and it's free.
    This is not private telephone or cell phone. We all share the same frequency and privileges. We share this repeater like a "party line", therefore, expect others are listening (we hope so, in case you need help) and even might want to join in, or at least make a call during your contact. This is NORMAL and encouraged. Just keep in mind everything you or your spouse talks about can be heard most anywhere in the State and is public information. Therefore, everyone will know what's for dinner at your place and be showing up on your doorstep. (just kidding; about the doorstep!)

    Tip: Keep the personal problems or goody kissy-talk for in-person or your cell phone. We know you love your spouse; why else would you be married?

    The repeater was in use, so I couldn't use it. And I was afraid to "break-in".
    That's ridiculous. It is an unnecessary burden on you to wait until a discussion is done, since it could be a long time. This is not an interruption, especially if you have something constructive to add, or need to make a quick call to another station. The other stations should be able to respond to your break-in and help you. At the same rate, remember when you are in contact with another station (perhaps a family member) you are subject to monitoring and possibly a breaking station wishing to get in as well. Just drop your call sign between transmissions. The only way to have a private, uninterrupted contact is with a cell phone, but that's not amateur radio.

    I can't get a word in edgewise.
     It's true some groups get going in fun, snappy, quick, razzing comments back and forth to each other. And you want to join in. You may be used to HF communications, with (simplex) transceivers that respond to quick transmissions. Not so in this case and can be a problematic area. There are delays from when you press your PTT to the point others hear your signal.

    This is also misunderstood; that you do not need to talk fast. But you need to start transmitting (PTT) right away, only during trying to get in. Listen for the squelch burst and give your callsign. The squelch burst occurs when the other station unkeys. Remember, a simple single word, such as "break", "comment" or "contact" may not be heard. Tip: Rather than using the word "contact" (this is not a 75-meter SSB net) it's better just to give your callsign.

    Another tip:
    If you suspect your transmission is being cut off or not completely heard here's a suggestion: As soon as you hear that familiar squelch burst (last person just unkeyed) say some "preamble" (such as "here is") then your callsign. This is especially true when the repeater is idle and you are the first station to bring it up. That way if the delay cuts off your first part (of "here is") the rest will get the other's attention (not to key up over you) and most likely your callsign will get through, which is the intent.

    In some areas I receive interference, almost like another repeater on the same frequency.
     Near Ritzville, Chelan, Davenport, South of Manastash pass and upper SR97 are "overlap" areas. This may be that you are hearing more than one of the 147.20 transmitters. To reduce this issue is very expensive however, if enough demand (and support) to clear these areas up, it is possible.

    Which frequency do I use for my area?
     Try to unlearn what you know about a conventional repeater, or system of separate repeaters and groups/clubs. SRG is different that others such as, IRLP, IPARN, Echolink, and various DMR types. There is no "link" to turn on or off. The main repeater 147.20 MHz covers most of Eastern Washington.

    Having said this, there is a secondary access frequency added into the System on 145.450 MHz. The SRG repeater happens to cover a wide area, on the same (primary) frequency in Eastern Washington. The secondary frequency is to avoid overlap areas. True, there are many transparent connection points and technical things happening when you press your mic button, but that is all automatic support in the background for the repeater's several transmitters and receivers (just put it in "drive" and go). The only change you make in your radio is the transmit tone for your area. Tones are designated to the nearby city/town, (not mountain top sites) covering your area . The coverage map will show these designations and will clarify this.

    It's hard to change tones/areas while driving along the highway.
    Here's a tip. Beforehand, program your radio with several positions on the same 147.20 frequency (with the proper offset) but with different transmit tones. That way you just move your dial to the next "area". You are really just changing "area" access on 147.20 (or 45). As a reminder, your receiver will be on carrier squelch (no tone).

    Here’s an example what your radio panel/programming can look like:

    Knob pos: Coverage area Your radio label Your receive frequency Your transmit tone
    1 Spokane SRG SPO 147.20 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    2 Wenatchee SRG WEN 147.20 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    3 Omak SRG OMK 147.20 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    4 Yakima SRG YAK 147.20 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    5 Tri-Cities SRG TC 145.45 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    6 Colville SRG COL 145.45 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    7 Chelan SRG CHE 145.45 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    8 Spokane SRG SPO 444.70 xxx.x Hz (write for the tone)
    9 Seattle SRG SEA TBD xxx.x Hz to be determined

    Position 9; might leave a slot open for a possible Seattle access point.

    Are there dues?
     Support is not required however, very much needed. It will give a better chance for keeping the repeater running in the future years. Sites and equipment are expensive. SRG is interested in accepting donations from folks that are not concerned about "how many contacts I can make for my money", rather just want to see the repeater stay on the air. If you cannot support this repeater you are still welcome for occasional use and of course, any "true" emergency traffic.

    I have a budget. How much should I send in?
     Amateur radio is a hobby, not a competitive business however, both have operating expenses to make it possible. With a quality repeater it takes more sites to do a good job of coverage therefore, costs more to operate. The normal annual support is $50. Some folks spend that much every day or week on something.

    If you stop and think what internet access, telephone (or cellular) service, movies or other treats run you realize this is a bargain. If it's a priority to help this repeater that shouldn't be a problem. If you have a true financial hardship lessor amounts will still help out and give you basic repeater access in Spokane on 147.20. Other repeater "clubs" around the area have several hundred "members" to support the their repeater. 147.20 is a group, (in the 'red') therefore, the repeater owner has supplemented the expenses out of his pocket to keep the repeater going since 1976. Any Donation money goes to the maintenance/site rent of 147.20. Where to send funds are on the "contact page" on this site.

    I just bought a new little portable radio. How far does it work?
    This is a tough question to answer in a short paragraph. Portable (two-way) radios are a wonderful compromise of handiness and misunderstanding. Several members use them, including the repeater owner. You need to know of the limitations otherwise, they can be very handy, hence the slang name came about as "handi-talki". A portable radio typically transmits one one-hundredth the power that a repeater transmits, so very roughly, if you are hearing the repeater very strong you probably can get into it.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Try to picture that the repeater is like the Sun. You can see it everywhere on one half of this planet, and many, miles out in space. Then use a flashlight to shine a light to someone standing on the Moon. Not going to work very well. This is an extreme example, but to emphasize the power difference between your portable and the repeater . Know the general coverage of the repeater you are working. It might surprise you or might disappoint you. This is not like a cell phone. Cell companies install dozens of "tower" stations around your area so at least one will pick up your weak signal. They have lots of money to spend. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most Clubs have a few hundred to play with. Private repeaters have less. Most repeaters have ONE site and you need to be close to that one site. SRG has several "receiving" antennas around Spokane so you can get away with a portable. However, there still are "dead-spots". The rest of the state has one "receiving" antenna (for each coverage area) therefore, you would be best to use a mobile running at least a +44 dbm with a good, outside antenna. (for math challenged folks that's more than 25 watts at 50 ohms). There's nothing wrong with experimenting, just keep in mind it is annoying for others to listen to a "scratchy" (noisy) signal from you lasting more than a few minutes.

    Does a 100 watt mobile get out 100 times (in miles) more than one watt?
    No. Power figure expressed in "watts" can be a another misunderstanding. Most folks think of that light bulb they buy at the hardware store. We won't get into the (boring) math, but keep in mind a hundred-to-one power ratio is a lot less than you would think. Power figures are a result of "ohm's law", described in the A.R.R.L. radio amateurs Handbook. Logarithmic figures are more practical. More on that

    This sounds all new and intimidating.
    Please feel at home. It's understood we all have to start somewhere and maybe make an "oops" once and in a while. If you monitor the frequency for a week or so, that might help you understand how things work on here. You can go over the SRG guide lines as well, right here. If you are in another town (Wenatchee, for example) you are welcome to use it like a "local" repeater. That way folks in other towns might have a chance hear what's going on or even join in. SRG believes that's what repeaters are for. There are not really any "stupid" questions. You are really "smart" to ask a question, so you will learn. Others listening on the frequency might learn too.

    I noticed the "SRG Home" image on several areas on the site, here.
     Internet search "engines" have "spiders" that go out on the web and look at many documents on many sites (html documents) "key words" such as what you are searching for end up in the search engines "database" so the next time you search they come up with a brief description about the site "hit". Some of those "hits" are not complete paths to the proper site therefore, if you go there you sometimes will see only that specific document which might be confusing relevant to the site you are looking for. The SRG images are clickable and will get you back to the "main" home page as a starting point. An example, is the image at the bottom of this page (html) "document".


    Okay, so, what in the world is "html" ?
     Hyper Text Markup Language. Your PC accesses web sites with an (IP)address (in your browser's window). Those sites send back a file, in the form of text. To make the this site look better, and to control the way it displays on your PC, the "Hyper" has instructions given to your browser, in turn, your screen to accomplish this.


    Can I copy and "save" this HTML file?
     Sure. You know as well as others there is nothing to prevent anyone from "downloading" anything one sees on the Internet. But it was nice for you to ask. You can copy anything on the SRG page. If you find any typos however, it sure would be nice if you let the owner know so he can correct it. On the tech "copyright" info, it can be copied in complete form with the Author given credit.




    A note from the owner:

    I hope you enjoy the repeater. It's taken many years to get it to where it's now.
    '73, Karl Shoemaker, AK2O

    [SRG home Direction]